Roughly 1000 people are killed by police annually.
Today we welcome Penn State public policy professor Ben Jones to discuss the moral foundations of policing authority, over-policing, and what accountability should look like.
The discussion begins with the Ta’Kiya Young shooting in 2023 in Blendon Township, Ohio, where the situation quickly escalated unnecessarily. The officer who shot and killed Young was acquitted and later resigned.
Gonzo points out that civil litigation and financial incentives (including insurance) often drive reform more than criminal prosecutions, which are rare.
Ben explains the gaps between ethics and the law and cites three ethical principles for evaluating the use of force: just purpose, proportionality and necessity. Officers should choose the least harmful option (e.g., not shooting at moving vehicles), which was not the case with the Young shooting.
Ben, Jack and Gonzo explore when use of force is legitimate, de-escalation training and decentralization, and the challenges that come with providing adequate training for some 18,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide.
Ben discusses research concerning the consequences of high-profile controversial police killings. In the aftermath of those incidents, violent crime often goes up, which can't be fully explained by just a reduction in policing.
Some incidents can be avoided through better policy, better training and better tactics. Ben talks of evidence-based de-escalation training that reduces shootings. When de-escalation is employed, not only are there fewer injuries to suspects and people in the community, there are fewer injuries to officers as well.
As Ben sees it, reforms are often framed as a zero-sum game, where a reduction in the use of force by police will mean police will be less safe. That's not actually the case, because reforms can help keep officers safer.
Listen to the conversation.
